I’m Tired

April 23, 2008 at 8:49 am (World of Warcraft)

I spent ~ 15hours driving over Sunday and Monday, and got very little sleep Monday night and last night. Could someone tell me if I’m dreaming?

1) From the 2.4.2 patch notes

BUG (?!?!?!) – The hunter pet ability Growl will no longer scale with pet Attack Power.

What the heck. I have definitely been over the growl AP cap of 734 often in reviewing pet families. I have no idea if this means I now have to start over…

2) Arena weapons

S3 weapons will require 1800 personal rating and S4 will require 2050

I was really looking forward to a new bow to replace my noisy gun, and the only thing really open to me was the arena weapons. Even if I wanted a techno-chicken Xbow, I will never see 150 badges. I’ll also never see 1800 arena rating.

Neither of these is really a surprise, but they’re both official now. Depending on how effective the growl change is, it may be time to take a break until 3.0. The only thing I would have left to do is get the SSO cloak.

UPDATE: I’m screwed

Growl was scaling incorrectly before so it’s been changed to scale with the hunter’s AP starting at around 1200 AP. Other pet abilities such as bite, claw, etc will still scale with pet AP.

So at my 1610 AP with test gear, that 400 AP difference does anything other than grant 200 threat, I will have a huge headache.  I think I already have one.



  1. Fearstalker said,

    Solo/casuals are getting the two-fisted ******** in this patch. Our aggro problems are bad already, and now with growl getting the nerf-bat, it’s gonna be painful to solo.

    Also, dig deeper on the S4 changes. Most of the BG reward items will require a rating as well.

    Blizz wants us to be leet raiders or PVPers. casuals are getting *****ed.

    A break until WoLTK?.. not a bad idea. Not much else for a casual hunter to do. Except if I take that break, it will be permanent.


  2. Nekru said,

    From what I have heard, this ‘bug’ specifically is being adjusted to address the Charge boost that Boars contributed to their first Growl.

    Many reports of Boar aggro being changed were reported last patch and it turned out to be the result of Growl no longer always being the next attack after Charge, thus not getting the AP boost.

    At the time Blizzard noted that they would look into why Growl was not the next attack, but that Charge affecting Growl was not intended behavior and would be corrected in the future. Guess the future is now.

    It doesn’t seem likely that this will affect any other pets aggro though.

  3. Znodis said,

    Actually, it will affect more than boars. Previously, if you could get your pet’s AP above 734 at level 70, growl would give 5.7 additional threat for each point. Since Charge added 550 AP that was OP. I don’t think anyone is arguing that. I mean even if you only got half of that in threat, it would be more than double growls base threat (ie the effect would triple).

    In my testing every pet had the same 659 AP regardless of damage modifiers. I used Improved Hunter’s mark which puts every one of my pets over the 734 mark by 35. That gives me ~199 extra threat or a 30% increase. If you don’t think that’s a lot, consider that the difference between growl 7 and 8 is 240. That 199 extra threat is a good way towards rank 9.

    So, now even if they boost up growl in some hidden way to compensate, how will I know if a warp stalker holds agro better or worse than a bear? The comparison is pointless.

    What I’ve basically decided is that if this change is major enough to screw me up, I’m going to just get stats and compare playstyles/enjoyability. There would be no way to rank them anymore for PvE. PvP, arenas, and raiding may still hold up, I guess, but it cuts the heart out of the project for me…

  4. Fearstalker said,

    The question is, will growl scale with anything?.. or is being solidly nerfed to oblivion?

    If they apply the scaling based on hunter AP, then that’s fine, but the notes don’t indicate that.

    If we have that 30% reduction in threat, it will be impossible for a pet to even hold aggro against auto-shots with a better weapon and high crit-rate. At that point, it’s time to go MM or Surv, as BM will not be viable outside of raids.

  5. Fearstalker said,

    Well, it’s certainly better than scaling being removed entirely.

    And look at the bright side. That PVP you can’t get now is less desirable anyway as it’s low on AP. Time for LW, and stack the AP.

    The days of PVEing in PVP gear might be coming to an end. At least for hunters.

  6. Brought you by the letter ‘G’ « Great Green Hunter said,

    […] read up at Mania’s Arcania for the news. The Mystic Hunter has a nice rant about it […]

  7. Ghanur said,

    It reads, that the scaling of growl will start at 1200 hunter AP.

    BM specced casuals don’t have those high numbers in AP, MMs will have it.

    The BM specc is now officially dead (for casuals, who don’t PvP or raid hardcore).

    It’s time for the long break – and I’ll read all those blogs when WotLK is released for all those bugs introduced new *eg*. Maybe someone at Blizzard will get a clue(tm) and fix the problems they introduced the last year… but I won’t hold my breath.

  8. Fearstalker said,


    I don’t think the BM spec is dead, but, it may be that MM might be more viable for solo now. Wait for the PTR testing results. It’s more likely that it evens out.

    Any geared hunter at 70 should have at least 1200AP.. I have 1450 or so and I’m in a mix of blues and pvp epics.

    But, it might be worth trying MM with a few more pieces of gear. The question is, will the loss of threat from lower pet damage outweigh the greater threat from growl?..

  9. Bobo & SgtPork said,

    Sorry to be late to the party, Znodis, but could you explain how Growl after Charge is OP? Where does it affect anything outside of solo PvE? I don’t get it . . .

  10. Znodis said,

    It’s not really OP it’s more IMBA. On the one hand we have most pets generating anywhere from 664 – ~1300 (at best) on each growl. On the other, we have boar generating 2500-3500 threat on an initial growl every 2 fights or so while grinding, which essentially removes the threat of pulling agro.

    If you want some specific numbers, my pets with IHM were generating 863 threat per growl. If I had used a boar it would have generated 3998 threat on that first growl. That’s almost 5 growls worth at once. Imbalanced.

    Let’s step back and talk about history. Not so long ago, there were different attack speeds most of which were found on cats. People found that they were optimal for PvP since they were high damage and the 1s attack speed was huge for spell pushback, and there was really no advantage in not going with a faster attack speed.. Everyone had a cat. Eventually, they gave some bats 1s attacks. These were high DPS, with spell pushback AND they had annoying wings that could block your opponent. Everyone dropped their cat for a bat.

    At this point I think Bliz realized that if they didn’t normalize, there would always be a single pet that everyone would take. So they normalized attack speed. (this is also the basis for my thoughts on overall pet normalization).

    Let’s apply this history here. They have 4 options: remove charge, give charge to other families, boost everyone else’s growl generation, or nerf charge. Removal isn’t an option, there’s already too few family abilities, it would just upset players and there are other uses for charge (ie PvP). They can’t give it to another family because either boars would still be the superior family OR the new family would be superior and we’re back in the same everyone takes a X for PvE. Third they could boost everyones threat generation so that growl’s initial threat is comparable. You’re talking about boosting 860 up to close to 3900? Not going to happen. That leaves us with nerf.

    IMO growl should never have gotten bonus from charge in the first place. The excessive amount of threat shows it was ever intended so I’ve always thought of it as a bug even when they didn’t fix it for however many patches. Chalk it up to fun while it lasted. The change doesn’t make boars useless, just less useful. I do still feel bad for those that leveled up a boar just for it’s solo ability, but I saw this coming from the day I first heard of it.

    What upsets me most about this is that it’s a ‘stealth nerf.’ It’s clearly a mechanic that many hunters depended on and worked hard to earn. To make such a change without even announcing it is just poorly-thought out and upsetting. It makes us question what else they’re changing and not telling us.

    The bonus to growl I think is going to be a good thing, depending on how much threat is generated per AP. I’m pretty sure I was around 1200 AP when I hit 70 and that’s with only quest gear and no instances. Since we’re most likely be stuck with growl 8’s 664 threat until 80 some better scaling is a good thing. My problem with it is that it ruins my comparisons for the pet review, not that it isn’t a good idea.

    My hope is that since growl’s base is ~600 and the cut-off is twice that at 1200 that the extra threat generation will be 1 threat per 2 AP. If THAT happens I’m saved and the pet reviews may continue uninterrupted. Right now, I’m trying to get as many families done as possible. I should finish crocs tonight and start on scorpids, dragonhawks, or nether rays this weekend.

  11. Bobo & SgtPork said,

    Thanks for answering so promptly and well. I guess I understand, from a historical perspective, but the devs must be seriously in some world of their own. Was anyone complaining about this? There’s so little transparency with Blizzard’s intentions for WoW. Guess I just /shrug and wait to see what gets messed with next o.0

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